Tool Tip Type?

[lcvette]

Hey folks,

I have been using MSM for my mill and love it but recently started using it on my lathe and have been setting everything up but can't seem to find information on the "Tool Tip Type". I'm sure it is simple but Being new to turning with MSM it is a little different then the regular Mach tool table in which you have the picture diagrams. i didn't see numbers associated in the mach tables and search didn't bring anything up and I read the manual but only saw information referring to the turning, center and boring tool types but no associated numbers with those types to enter into the tool table.

Can someone shed some light on this for me? I have just setup all my QC lathe tool holders and have them dialed in to the center point of the work piece and was ready to start loading tools into MSM with the master tool mode when i ran into this question.

I have another question as well. the reading left me with a few questions regarding setting the master tool. I "think" what i read is telling me that when i set the master tool with mastertool mode on, that i zero Z and X and for X I enter in the diameter(or Radius depending on mode used) of the work piece to establish the master tool offset from the X Zero center point. Am I understanding this correctly? and then for each additional tool loaded I would touch off the X and Z faces of the work piece and hit the touch off button to have MSM record the tool offsets.

now for when i run my first job, I assume I will be touching off the new stock with the master tool loaded both physically and via MDI and entering in the radius (in my case) of the new work piece stock in the work coordinates page in the X touch off box.... I Haven't gotten that far yet with the hands on portion ( first issue halted me). Am I correctly understanding those items?

Thanks,

Chris

[DaveCVI]

Hi ,
The tool tip type numbers are all determined by mach - the numbers for types are the same whether using MSM or plain Mac3.

Re "master tool mode" with MSM and mach in turn mode: Master tool mode is what mach implements by defautl when runnign mach w/o MSM. So with the Master tool mode button ON in MSM, you have stock mach behavior.
Dave

[lcvette]

Ok, so then I should setup the tools in regular mach screens where I can select the tool insert type? And ten just import the table into MSM via the load tool table button and it will correctly populate the tool tip style in the MSM interface?

[DaveCVI]

Why not just type the tool tip type # into Tip Type box in the MSM tool edit dialog?
Dave

[lcvette]

Because I don't know what tool tip is what has what number designation, mach has little picture icons without numbers for reference, you just click tool tip picture u til you get the one you want. Or am I doing something wrong?

[DaveCVI]

Hum, I guess that info did not get duplicated in the MSM lathe manual. IT is in the old mach lathe manual - which can be tricky to dig up these days... here is a copy of the old mach 1.84 manual - see section 9.2 for the tip type #s.
Dave

[lcvette]

Yes... That is the missing link! Thanks Dave! I thought I was going crazy..lol. I have learned from the past that you are meticulous about providing information in the manuals and it covers everything stem to stern. So I was scratching my head trying to figure out where I missed it, when I hit the last page, and had not found it, I knew I was in trouble so headed here.

Thanks Dave!

[DaveCVI]

FYI - I've add the diagrams to the MSM lathe manual, so the next release will have them.
Thanks for spotting they were missing.
Dave

[lcvette]

Awesome!

I read that link and saw it says that I should use my camsoftware for the offsets etc... Is that still the case or was that just because it was an older version of mach?

Seems like more confusion. My camsoftware does have the option to output compensations for each tool path and I can set the offsets, tip radius etc in the cam, it also has me draw all of my tools and save them as special STL files with a specific coordinate system where 0,0,0 is the tool tip radius center point. I am unclear if that is for the simulation or if it will output code adjusted for the tool tip radius. I will see of I can do it out some code on a nice whole number radius to finish on and see what the code has it cutting on the x axis and a facing operation the same and check the z axis finish.

Hopefully it is outputting un-adjusted code and leaving that for mach3 to contend with, I think that would be easier since I have gone through all the trouble of learning it that way.

Thoughts about how well mach handles turning offsets?

[DaveCVI]

Awesome!

I read that link and saw it says that I should use my for the offsets etc... Is that still the case or was that just because it was an older version of mach?

Seems like more confusion. My cam software does have the option to output compensations for each tool path and I can set the offsets, tip radius etc in the cam, it also has me draw all of my tools and save them as special STL files with a specific coordinate system where 0,0,0 is the tool tip radius center point. I am unclear if that is for the simulation or if it will output code adjusted for the tool tip radius. I will see of I can do it out some code on a nice whole number radius to finish on and see what the code has it cutting on the x axis and a facing operation the same and check the z axis finish.

Hopefully it is outputting un-adjusted code and leaving that for mach3 to contend with, I think that would be easier since I have gone through all the trouble of learning it that way.

There are differing opinions on whether cutter compensation is best done by CAM software or in the CNC controller.

If done in the CNC controller, then it is (theoretically) possible that by adjusting the cutter size in the tool table th eactual cut ocation can be adjusted on the part. This allows one to "dial in" an exact size on the part.
Of course this requires that the CNC control handles Cutter comp in a consistent and predictable manner. Alas, this is not always the case with Mach3. For example, Mach 3 implements wear values in the tool table, but (at least in mill mode) ignores them much of the time. Thus changing a wear value does not result in a different size part cut. I honestly do not have enough experience trying cutter compensation in mach's lathe mode to have an informed opinion re how well it works.

Doing the cuter comp in the Cam program is not really cutter compensation - as the cam program just programs the path to put the tool's cutting edge where it needs to be. The disadvantage of this is that you must re-post the cam program to change the cut location.

Thoughts about how well mach handles turning offsets?

I'm not a heavy lathe user with mach (no CNC lathe here) so I don't really know.

Dave