Setting up multiple lathe tools - being dim!

[simon0362]

Hi All,

I am being very dim at the moment trying to setup a set of 5 interchangeable toolholders on my lathe running MSM Turn (not mill-turn) and I seem to be going around in circles.
mach3 is at 067, MSM version is 2.09

Can anyone give me a step by step sequence, ideally using the reference point as the Master tool, otherwise using a defined tool as the Master, all based on the MSM screens?

I thought that something existed but I cannot find any links.

Thanks,

Simon

[DaveCVI]

Hi,

Can anyone give me a step by step sequence, ideally using the reference point as the Master tool, otherwise using a defined tool as the Master, all based on the MSM screens?

I thought that something existed but I cannot find any links.

I'm uncertain that I understand the question -
The master tool is always a tool with a tool number. So it's always the "defined master tool".
Section 3.1 of the MSM lathe manual is a bit brief, but covers touching tools to set WC offsets and (non-master) tool Tool offset values. I'm uncertain what you mean by "using the reference point as the master tool".

With Master tool on (the same that mach operates in with the 1024 screen set):
When you click the touch graphics on the WC offset page for X or Z, MSM will set the WC offset to match the diameter or Z position in the touch panel.
For a tool that is not the master, touching and clicking the graphics will cause MSM to set the X or Z tool offset for the currently mounted tool.

I don't have a step by step tutorial for setting lathe tool offsets already written. I suppose I could make one up, but I can't do it in the next couple of days - so I'll first wait to see if another MSM user can help out here.
Dave

[simon0362]

Dave,

My email was perhaps written whilst in a deeply frustrated state feeling that I was just chasing my tail with the tool tables - combined (foolishly) with updating to 2.09...

My biggest problem was that I did not have the Master Tool mode set - I mistook the grey 'Master Tool' indicator as simply a title and didn't realise that it should be lit

I have eventually made the tool table function and I have a set of tools referenced to a master tool.

My question about using the reference point was obviously not clear (see above!) but what I meant was that I wanted the Master Tool to be at the point that I use as the reference for the machine. i.e. when I start up and hit the "Ref All" button and the axes ref to their (opto switch detected) zero, I wanted to use that as the Master Tool point and to ref everything else against this.
I have now achieved this and for helping anyone else who finds the Mach3 description less than clear, this is my method:

• Install detector switches with a high degree of repeatibility - I use opto detectors that have a very narrow slit (0.5mm) built into them

• Press the button to 'use Master Tool' (critical point this....make sure the Master Tool indicator is green on the Tool tab)

• select tool 0 as the master (T0000)

• do a 'Ref All' and reference the master tool, set X and Z to zero
  in the tool table pageensure that X and Z are set to zero on the DRO and touch off both X and Z - all indicators should be at 0.00 now

• Insert a piece of metal in the chuck

• Select the 1st tool with a T0101 and move the carriage to the workpiece

• machine the diameter to just skim it, then move alongside to clear it

• measure the diameter accurately and enter the radius/diameter (as you have setup) into the X DRO

• use a G0 to move X to zero

• Touch off X

• move Z to be touching the work and take a facing skim, then zero Z

• touch off Z

Now install an accurate DTI with a flat faced foot and move the DTI until it is moving in the X plane and is indicating a reading - this now becomes your zero point - so useful to set the dial to 0 if possible.
Select the 2nd tool and move until touching Z, then touch off Z
Move the tool so that it is aimed at the centre of the DTI foot and advance X until you reach the zero point. Touch off X.

Repeat for all of the remaining tools...

Advantages of this method is that once the zero point has been set, everything else is shown on a DTI increasing (in my case) the accuracy of X setting between tools.

Simon

[DaveCVI]

Dave,

My email was perhaps written whilst in a deeply frustrated state feeling that I was just chasing my tail with the tool tables -

No problem, we've all been frustrated at some time or another with machine tools - I know I have been...

My biggest problem was that I did not have the Master Tool mode set - I mistook the grey 'Master Tool' indicator as simply a title and didn't realise that it should be lit

Ah... yea, that is a fundamental requirement for what you wanted to have happen.
I'm curious, is MSM lathe your first experience with MSM?

I ask because the visual conventions for MSM button states & screen controls etc are all laid out in the MSM mill user manual.. but if you start with the lathe manual, it assumes (maybe incorrectly) that a MSM lathe user is already an MSM mill user and so leaves all that out of the lathe manual...
This is a historical artifact of the way the MSM lathe screens grew from Mill->Mill-turn->lathe.
A restructuring of the manual splits could improve this, but it would require a major rewrite of all the documentation - so it has not happened.

I have eventually made the tool table function and I have a set of tools referenced to a master tool.

Glad to know that you have Mach/MSM doing what you wanted.

Please feel free to ask if you have more questions.

Dave

[simon0362]

Hi Dave,

I'm curious, is MSM lathe your first experience with MSM?

err...no, I think I downloaded most of the early MSM versions from about version .05 I think. I have been using it on my mill but I have only recently acquired a CNC lathe and I found the learning curve to be significantly steeper than I thought, especially since I was using the same Mach3/MSM and trying to create g-code from CamBam.

I don't have auto tool changers on the mill and I load and set the TLO on each tool after each manual change (tends to make me see how much I can achieve with each tool though...), so I didn't have the tool change experience behind me. That said, I should have noticed that the Master Tool button was not just a title.....

One issue that has appeared since I upgraded to 2.09 from the 'free personal' version is that the home option button selecting between X then Z or Z then X appears to be fixed in the former setting....I don't think this is something that I have reset, is this a new 'feature' of 2.09, or more finger trouble on my part?
Thanks for your help and support,

Simon

[DaveCVI]

Simon,

One issue that has appeared since I upgraded to 2.09 from the 'free personal' version is that the home option button selecting between X then Z or Z then X appears to be fixed in the former setting....I don't think this is something that I have reset, is this a new 'feature' of 2.09, or more finger trouble on my part?
Thanks for your help and support,

Simon

I think you mean "fixed" as in "stuck at" the X and then Z setting?
On 2.0.9.x (I just tested with a new beta release that has not hit the street yet) the options work as expected. The choice is set on the Settings page, - there are two buttons under "Home & TC Sequence" section (of the upper panel, right side).
While I haven't fired up the personal edition in sometime, I think both options are active with the personal edition.

Dave

[simon0362]

Dave,

What I mean is that selecting either the "X then Z" or the "Z then X" option has no effect on the actual Ref Home action. My carriage does X then Z whatever option is chosen....and I have just checked to make sure this is the case. BTW, I have the Pro version so it is not something specific to the personal version.

I assume that there isn't another setting overriding those on the settings page?

Simon

[DaveCVI]

The order of axes for a reference operation is coded into the reference script.
For the lathe mode, the MSM reference script pays attention to the XZ / ZX option setting.
(or at least it's coded to do so).

Take a look at the reference script in
C:\Mach3\ScreenSetMacros\MachStdMillLathe.lset\Masters\Scripts\All-RefAllHome.mis
(for lathe mode).
The section at the top set the axis sequence for lathe reference -
when you reference, is it not tracking the option button on the setting page for you?

Dave