I'm trying to load a custom screen to a new profile cloned from Default (stock) MSM profile here are the steps that I'm taking.
start Mach3 loader create net profile ----->clone from MASTERmachStdMill ---> name it click Create --->highlight new profile name click OK----> New session of Mach3/MSM starts with default MSM mill screen. Then I try to go to setting button load new screen but, only the .set is selected can not be change. Then I try the view load screen on the menu bar then select .lset from the drop down menu move threw the folders to find MachStdMill screen set folder where two options master and customs I choose (for now ) a master lathe screen 10x7 then it loads to the current screen no tap buttons at bottom of screen will work so I close out that mach session and restart when the new session starts no screen is loaded page is gray.
Thanks Adam
Loading a .lset from a new MSM profile
Re: Loading a .lset from a new MSM profile
Hi Adam,
Ah, a case of trying to apply old mach habits to MSM, alas that won't work.
MSM was written to use mach interfaces that did not exist until mach 3.32.22
Thus it requires that some things happen differently that what worked for early (and simpler) screen sets.
Please refer to section 15.5 of the user manual for details.
In the mean time, here are some pointers to help out:
1) when creating a customized MSM screen set, you do not use any of the old (pre-MSM) mach tools. In particular, do not use mach loader to create/clone an existing set file.
2) NEVER use the mach view/load screen to load any screen set named other than MachStdMill.set (for mills) or MachStdMillLathe.lset for lathe mode.
Time to break old habits - stop thinking about using mach to create screen sets for MSM. This is now done internally to MSM.
Here is what you want to be doing:
1) go to the MSM settings common screen.
2) Use the MSM "Clone screen"button to make a new MSM style screen set that is cloned from an existing MSM screen set.
3) Now that you have a clone, use the MSM button "Load screen" to load the new one you just made.
Again- mach itself must be loading ONLY MachStdMIll.set (for mills) - if you have changed it, put it back or MSM will not work right.
Now you have a MSM Style cloned screen set, you can make changes to the clone (that you built from inside MSM) with a screen editor etc (I find MachScreen to be the best).
Re loading .set or .lset files - when the MSM load screen button is used, it shows you the type of sets files that match the mode that mach is currently in. If you are in mil mode, you are shown MSM .set files. If you want to change to lathe mode, use the dialog pull down to change the filter from .set to .lset. Now you will see the .lset files. If you pic one of those, the lset will get loaded an you will now be in lathe mode.
Dave
Ah, a case of trying to apply old mach habits to MSM, alas that won't work.
MSM was written to use mach interfaces that did not exist until mach 3.32.22
Thus it requires that some things happen differently that what worked for early (and simpler) screen sets.
Please refer to section 15.5 of the user manual for details.
In the mean time, here are some pointers to help out:
1) when creating a customized MSM screen set, you do not use any of the old (pre-MSM) mach tools. In particular, do not use mach loader to create/clone an existing set file.
2) NEVER use the mach view/load screen to load any screen set named other than MachStdMill.set (for mills) or MachStdMillLathe.lset for lathe mode.
Time to break old habits - stop thinking about using mach to create screen sets for MSM. This is now done internally to MSM.
Nope, this tell me you are trying to use mach in "loader" mode - that's not what you want to be doing for MSM.adam wrote:I'm trying to load a custom screen to a new profile cloned from Default (stock) MSM profile here are the steps that I'm taking.
start Mach3 loader create net profile ----->clone from MASTERmachStdMill
Again, forget this - not what you want.adam wrote: ---> name it click Create --->highlight new profile name click OK----> New session of Mach3/MSM starts with default MSM mill screen.
All this is side effects of not using the MSM built in tools. The technical reason is that by using the mach tools you created a new screen set, with a new name. Changing the loaded screen set name makes mach look in the wrong directories for all the buttons, leds, scripts etc. The search path mach uses is screenset name dependent - so changin the name stops things from working right.adam wrote: Then I try to go to setting button load new screen but, only the .set is selected can not be change. Then I try the view load screen on the menu bar then select .lset from the drop down menu move threw the folders to find MachStdMill screen set folder where two options master and customs I choose (for now ) a master lathe screen 10x7 then it loads to the current screen no tap buttons at bottom of screen will work so I close out that mach session and restart when the new session starts no screen is loaded page is gray.
Thanks Adam
Here is what you want to be doing:
1) go to the MSM settings common screen.
2) Use the MSM "Clone screen"button to make a new MSM style screen set that is cloned from an existing MSM screen set.
3) Now that you have a clone, use the MSM button "Load screen" to load the new one you just made.
Again- mach itself must be loading ONLY MachStdMIll.set (for mills) - if you have changed it, put it back or MSM will not work right.
Now you have a MSM Style cloned screen set, you can make changes to the clone (that you built from inside MSM) with a screen editor etc (I find MachScreen to be the best).
Re loading .set or .lset files - when the MSM load screen button is used, it shows you the type of sets files that match the mode that mach is currently in. If you are in mil mode, you are shown MSM .set files. If you want to change to lathe mode, use the dialog pull down to change the filter from .set to .lset. Now you will see the .lset files. If you pic one of those, the lset will get loaded an you will now be in lathe mode.
Dave
Productivity Software for Personal CNC Machinists
http://www.CalypsoVentures.com
http://www.CalypsoVentures.com
- Tony Kendal
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Mon May 13, 2013 5:21 pm
Re: Loading a .lset from a new MSM profile
DAve,
I have just upgraded to latest release ( Mill is working fine ) and the filter to change from the .set to the .lset files does not recognise the .lset files.
All screen files are in the mach3/MSM/set files/master/xxxx.set &.lset files in here.
From MSM Settings, load screen , the ONLY files it can have in the pull down filters is .set..I cannot make it recognise *.lset
I assume it is possible to go from 6 axis to mill turn and turn on the fly.
I have just upgraded to latest release ( Mill is working fine ) and the filter to change from the .set to the .lset files does not recognise the .lset files.
All screen files are in the mach3/MSM/set files/master/xxxx.set &.lset files in here.
From MSM Settings, load screen , the ONLY files it can have in the pull down filters is .set..I cannot make it recognise *.lset
I assume it is possible to go from 6 axis to mill turn and turn on the fly.
Re: Loading a .lset from a new MSM profile
Tony
There does seem to be something that has gone wrong here - only the .set file filter is working. The drop down box in the dialog that should give the .lset and *.* filters seems to be broken. I'm not sure where the problem lies... I'm seeing the same symptom on older versions of MSM also - weird.
To help me narrow this down, please confirm for me the following:
MSM version installed:
Win version (including win 32 or 64 bit):
I'll go look to see what I can find.
In the mean time, Here is a workaround that works for me:
In the file name part of the dialog type *.Lset and then enter - this shows me the .lset files and I can then pick one and load it. The same trick gets me back to .set files. (I tried this on Win 7 32 bit and MSM 2.1.8).
Does this work for you also?
Dave
There does seem to be something that has gone wrong here - only the .set file filter is working. The drop down box in the dialog that should give the .lset and *.* filters seems to be broken. I'm not sure where the problem lies... I'm seeing the same symptom on older versions of MSM also - weird.
To help me narrow this down, please confirm for me the following:
MSM version installed:
Win version (including win 32 or 64 bit):
I'll go look to see what I can find.
In the mean time, Here is a workaround that works for me:
In the file name part of the dialog type *.Lset and then enter - this shows me the .lset files and I can then pick one and load it. The same trick gets me back to .set files. (I tried this on Win 7 32 bit and MSM 2.1.8).
Does this work for you also?
Dave
Tony Kendal wrote:DAve,
I have just upgraded to latest release ( Mill is working fine ) and the filter to change from the .set to the .lset files does not recognise the .lset files.
All screen files are in the mach3/MSM/set files/master/xxxx.set &.lset files in here.
From MSM Settings, load screen , the ONLY files it can have in the pull down filters is .set..I cannot make it recognise *.lset
I assume it is possible to go from 6 axis to mill turn and turn on the fly.
Productivity Software for Personal CNC Machinists
http://www.CalypsoVentures.com
http://www.CalypsoVentures.com
- Tony Kendal
- Posts: 5
- Joined: Mon May 13, 2013 5:21 pm
Re: Loading a .lset from a new MSM profile
Dave. Windows 7 64 bit. Msm 2.1.8.
Got it by opening another explorer window, highlighting the file name and ctrlC the name and then paste this into the msm pull down.
Also when changing to the turn and millturn screens the wizards remain for milling only.
Got it by opening another explorer window, highlighting the file name and ctrlC the name and then paste this into the msm pull down.
Also when changing to the turn and millturn screens the wizards remain for milling only.
Re: Loading a .lset from a new MSM profile
Tony,
I spent some time looking into the code that I wrote for this many, many moons ago. After doing so, I realized that it's working as intended... so I'm going to say: sorry, but I need to retract what I wrote to you in the thread before this.
Skipping for the moment the technical reasons as to why this is as it is, the rules you need to know are:
1) Create separate profiles for MSM mill and lathe mode.
A MSM mill profile only ever loads MachStdMIll.set and a lathe profile only ever loads MachStdMillLathe.lset (and MSM will deal in internally with the sub-flavors within a mill/lathe mode.
2) You can't switch between mill and lathe mode dynamically within a mach session. You have to restart mach with a different profile to change mill/lathe mode.
Now if you want some insight into why this restriction exists, read on...
1) It's not possible from inside MSM to dynamically switch from mill to lathe mode.
Mach determines the mode (mill / lathe) at the time mach starts. It does this by looking at the extension of the screen set file that is specified within the profile that mach is loading. if the screen set file name has a .set extension it starts in mill mode; if it's .lset, mach starts in lathe mode.
So you might be thinking that MSM could just alter the name of the screenset within the profile...
2) mach uses a search path to find included scripts
Alas, we now have to also understand a limitations of another feature in mach (one that MSM uses extensively): #include.
The #include script ability lets a script script writer reuse code components. Essentially this lets one put a script in a file and load that script code at run time from the file. This lets one have one copy of a component and reuse it many times without the need to have many copies of the component (which creates a maintenance nightmare).
The catch is that the path which mach uses to find these scripts is dependent on the name of the currently loaded screen set... and that name includes the extension part of the screen set file name.
Therefore, if we change the screen set name from .set to .lset dynamically, mach suddenly can't find the #include files and scripts stop running (they throw syntax errors when one tries to run them).
One design alternative would have been to copy all the MSM scripts to a new dir for each and every screen set file name... that was deemed impractical as MSM has around 500 script files... that would have taken significant time and it would have resulted in many (out of sync and not updated) copies of the scripts on the disk. Not a good idea from a support viewpoint.
The compromise was to have two locations where MSM keeps scripts: one for mill mode and one for lathe mode.
This worked reasonably, was manageable and nicely matched the modal nature of mill/lathe installs.
3) MSM has to do some behind the curtain manipulations...
Because the screen set name can't be changed on the fly, this left a problem of how to change screen set files within a mode (mill / lathe). MSM accomplishes this by doing behind the scenes file copy and rename operations with set files. When you use MSM to load a different resolution screen set, what happens is that the contents of the (static, remember we can't change the name) screen set file gets updated to be the desired resolution.
SO..... when loading a screen set sub-variation from inside MSM, the code only shows you the type of screen set files that will work with the current Mach mode. Thus mill mode only shows .set and lathe mode only show .lset files.
What you did was force MSM to load a .lset file in mill mode.... and that will result in a broken setup (hence the reason you are not seeing the wizards change modes etc.) - as it will Have MSM loading mill mode scripts from the mill script dir in lathe mode and vise versa.
If I could prevent this from happening, I would, but MSM does not have control over this aspect of mach.
Use separate mill/lathe profiles and things will work out as designed.
Dave
I spent some time looking into the code that I wrote for this many, many moons ago. After doing so, I realized that it's working as intended... so I'm going to say: sorry, but I need to retract what I wrote to you in the thread before this.
Skipping for the moment the technical reasons as to why this is as it is, the rules you need to know are:
1) Create separate profiles for MSM mill and lathe mode.
A MSM mill profile only ever loads MachStdMIll.set and a lathe profile only ever loads MachStdMillLathe.lset (and MSM will deal in internally with the sub-flavors within a mill/lathe mode.
2) You can't switch between mill and lathe mode dynamically within a mach session. You have to restart mach with a different profile to change mill/lathe mode.
Now if you want some insight into why this restriction exists, read on...
1) It's not possible from inside MSM to dynamically switch from mill to lathe mode.
Mach determines the mode (mill / lathe) at the time mach starts. It does this by looking at the extension of the screen set file that is specified within the profile that mach is loading. if the screen set file name has a .set extension it starts in mill mode; if it's .lset, mach starts in lathe mode.
So you might be thinking that MSM could just alter the name of the screenset within the profile...
2) mach uses a search path to find included scripts
Alas, we now have to also understand a limitations of another feature in mach (one that MSM uses extensively): #include.
The #include script ability lets a script script writer reuse code components. Essentially this lets one put a script in a file and load that script code at run time from the file. This lets one have one copy of a component and reuse it many times without the need to have many copies of the component (which creates a maintenance nightmare).
The catch is that the path which mach uses to find these scripts is dependent on the name of the currently loaded screen set... and that name includes the extension part of the screen set file name.
Therefore, if we change the screen set name from .set to .lset dynamically, mach suddenly can't find the #include files and scripts stop running (they throw syntax errors when one tries to run them).
One design alternative would have been to copy all the MSM scripts to a new dir for each and every screen set file name... that was deemed impractical as MSM has around 500 script files... that would have taken significant time and it would have resulted in many (out of sync and not updated) copies of the scripts on the disk. Not a good idea from a support viewpoint.
The compromise was to have two locations where MSM keeps scripts: one for mill mode and one for lathe mode.
This worked reasonably, was manageable and nicely matched the modal nature of mill/lathe installs.
3) MSM has to do some behind the curtain manipulations...
Because the screen set name can't be changed on the fly, this left a problem of how to change screen set files within a mode (mill / lathe). MSM accomplishes this by doing behind the scenes file copy and rename operations with set files. When you use MSM to load a different resolution screen set, what happens is that the contents of the (static, remember we can't change the name) screen set file gets updated to be the desired resolution.
SO..... when loading a screen set sub-variation from inside MSM, the code only shows you the type of screen set files that will work with the current Mach mode. Thus mill mode only shows .set and lathe mode only show .lset files.
What you did was force MSM to load a .lset file in mill mode.... and that will result in a broken setup (hence the reason you are not seeing the wizards change modes etc.) - as it will Have MSM loading mill mode scripts from the mill script dir in lathe mode and vise versa.
If I could prevent this from happening, I would, but MSM does not have control over this aspect of mach.
Use separate mill/lathe profiles and things will work out as designed.
Dave
Productivity Software for Personal CNC Machinists
http://www.CalypsoVentures.com
http://www.CalypsoVentures.com
Re: Loading a .lset from a new MSM profile
hi
i have been using msm mill for about six or 7 years,a couple of weeks ago i purchased a new licence so that i could use the msmmillturn features,but after two weeks of trying i still cant get it to work.I have the latest verions of msm & mach as of today, my mill side is working perfectly & i have a cloned set running as described in the manual which i have read a dozen times, but when i go to set up a mill turn i clone the msmmillturn master & give it a new name & when i open it up it always start as a mill & when i go to clone screen there is no lset there only set files. i cant get to the lset files without going to the view button in mach which i no is the wrong way. i have tried every permutation but it will not start in msmmillturn so that i can make a clone to use.
please help
regards mick
i have been using msm mill for about six or 7 years,a couple of weeks ago i purchased a new licence so that i could use the msmmillturn features,but after two weeks of trying i still cant get it to work.I have the latest verions of msm & mach as of today, my mill side is working perfectly & i have a cloned set running as described in the manual which i have read a dozen times, but when i go to set up a mill turn i clone the msmmillturn master & give it a new name & when i open it up it always start as a mill & when i go to clone screen there is no lset there only set files. i cant get to the lset files without going to the view button in mach which i no is the wrong way. i have tried every permutation but it will not start in msmmillturn so that i can make a clone to use.
please help
regards mick
Re: Loading a .lset from a new MSM profile
Hi,
The dialog box that lets you pic a set/lset file to open uses the standard windows file pick control. Ih the dialog box the files that are shown are filtered by extension to match the mode that mach is currently in. So if running a mill, you see .set files. To load a .lset file, go to the file type drop down and change the filter to show .lset files - then the main part of the dialog will show you the .lset files and you can pick one.
Dave
The dialog box that lets you pic a set/lset file to open uses the standard windows file pick control. Ih the dialog box the files that are shown are filtered by extension to match the mode that mach is currently in. So if running a mill, you see .set files. To load a .lset file, go to the file type drop down and change the filter to show .lset files - then the main part of the dialog will show you the .lset files and you can pick one.
Dave
Productivity Software for Personal CNC Machinists
http://www.CalypsoVentures.com
http://www.CalypsoVentures.com
Re: Loading a .set from a new MSM profile, screen resolution
Hi Dave,
I just bought the license, but I have problems with the screen resolution on my laptop.
I have tried everything, I cannot get the correct resolution on my laptop 1920x1080
Here are some pictures, with all different settings, and your special resolution files.
I used all .set files for the MSM on the Mach3 directory as well as the MSM/Set directory.
Either way it looks ugly or does not fit at all.
Only with Auto Screen Enlarge I get all the buttons, otherwise it does not fit.
What am I doing wrong? Is it a Windows setting?
Thanks for your help
I just bought the license, but I have problems with the screen resolution on my laptop.
I have tried everything, I cannot get the correct resolution on my laptop 1920x1080
Here are some pictures, with all different settings, and your special resolution files.
I used all .set files for the MSM on the Mach3 directory as well as the MSM/Set directory.
Either way it looks ugly or does not fit at all.
Only with Auto Screen Enlarge I get all the buttons, otherwise it does not fit.
What am I doing wrong? Is it a Windows setting?
- MSMresolution.jpg (25.77 KiB) Viewed 9353 times
Re: Loading a .lset from a new MSM profile
Hi,
Mach 3 only knows how to use fixed resolution bitmap screen sets.
The MSM package for Mach 3 provides two resolutions: 1024x768 ("10x7") and 1280x1024 ("12x9"). Both of these are 4:3 ratio image sets and they pretty much predate the introduction of 16:9 aspect ration displays.
I recommend turning off mach's "auto enlarge" configuration "feature" - which I tend to think of as "auto distort all screen images".
You just can't get the 4:3 images to perfectly fit 16:9 displays.
I run my systems either on old 4:3 aspect monitors or just let mach3 be a windows which does not fill all of a display.
Sorry, but the technology supported by Mach3 for screens is fixed resolution bitmaps. There is no Mach3 support for vector images and auto sizing to any size/aspect ratio display.
Dave
Mach 3 only knows how to use fixed resolution bitmap screen sets.
The MSM package for Mach 3 provides two resolutions: 1024x768 ("10x7") and 1280x1024 ("12x9"). Both of these are 4:3 ratio image sets and they pretty much predate the introduction of 16:9 aspect ration displays.
I recommend turning off mach's "auto enlarge" configuration "feature" - which I tend to think of as "auto distort all screen images".
You just can't get the 4:3 images to perfectly fit 16:9 displays.
I run my systems either on old 4:3 aspect monitors or just let mach3 be a windows which does not fill all of a display.
Sorry, but the technology supported by Mach3 for screens is fixed resolution bitmaps. There is no Mach3 support for vector images and auto sizing to any size/aspect ratio display.
Dave
Productivity Software for Personal CNC Machinists
http://www.CalypsoVentures.com
http://www.CalypsoVentures.com