TLO measurement issue. Tool crashing into TCP touch plate.

[ChrisAttebery]

Hi Dave,

Over the summer I added an ESS to my system. It has really transformed the machine. It's smoother, faster and more reliable. However, I have one problem that seems to crop up occasionally. When I measure tools once in a while I run into one that just wants to keep pushing into the TCP touch plate. It happened this morning with a carbide chamfer tool. When I hit the E-stop the PROBE indicator was on. I can send you a log file if you'd like.

It seems to happen most often with sharply pointed tools like drills and this chamfer tool. My thought was maybe the fast feed rate is too high causing the tool to plunge into the touch plate deep enough that it isn't reaching the Z clearance height and breaking the connection with the TP.

My thought was to reduce the fast feed and increasing the Z clearance. Any other suggestions?

Thanks,


Chris

[ChrisAttebery]

I reduced the fast feed rate from 25IPM to 10IPM and the slow feed rate from 10 to 5 IPM. I also increased the Z clearance from .070" to .125". These seemed to work on the first couple TLO measurements. Then I tried measuring the height of my workpiece with the mobile touch plate and it had the same problem again. The Probe LED is on in Mach. I haven't changed the version or Mach or MSM in at least a year. The only change I've made is adding the ESS and that was around July of last year.

I'm using Mach version 3.43.66 and MSM version 2.0.10.

Any suggestions?

[ChrisAttebery]

Dave,

Can you let me know how to turn on data logging so we can debug this issue? I really need to get this sorted out in the next couple days.

Thanks,


Chris

[DaveCVI]

Chris,
I'll email the debug log instructions to you.

BTW, be careful with slower probe fed rates... it's a tad counter intuitive but the dynamics of how this all works means that a feed rate that is too slow can lead to more errors instead of less. How slow is too slow? depends on the machine.

For more info please see section 8.11.1.1 of the mill user manual

Dave

[ChrisAttebery]

Thanks Dave,

First off. I made a mistake. I have version 2.0.6 installed.

I looked at the manual and set the probe feed rates back to 20 fast and 10 slow.

I followed the instructions for debug logging. When I tried measuring my master tool it it touched the plate and I could hear the stepper skip a couple steps. then it backed off and started the slow feed. Once it touched the plate it tried to continue a couple more steps. The Probe indicator was on when the machine quit moving. Then mach was stuck in TLO measurement mode, but nothing was happening. I had to restart Mach.

I changed debounce to 100 and tried again and the results were the same.

I've added the logs for both below.

[DaveCVI]

Hi,
I got the log files. For future logs, please email them directly to me.
I'll try to look at them soon, may not be until Friday as tomorrow is overbooked.
FYI - I deleted them from the post (I prefer not to have log files on the forum posts).
Dave

[DaveCVI]

Hi readers,
An update: this one is solved.
There is a debounce setting in teh ESS setup and also one in mach. Apparently the ESS does not lay well when using the mach debounce setting. The solution was to use the one in the ESS setup and turn off the mach debounce.

Dave

[ChrisAttebery]

Thanks again Dave.

I cut a couple parts this morning and the TLO measurement and Z location probing functions worked perfectly.


Chris

[sebba]

Hello,

I know this topic is old but I have the same problem and also an old version of MSM (2.0.12) with ESS
From time to time, when I want to measure a tool with TCP TP I have to followings:
The machine is moving into the TCP and start going down on Z. When the tool is touching the TP it stop for a short time (almost a second - probe LED is ON) and after that is not retracting as should but start going down into the TP.
Unfortunately I cannot make this error repeatable, it happen from time to time. Yesterday I had around 8 correct tools measurments in a row but after that the problem occur again. No other tasks was performed between good and bad measurements.
Same problem with the mobile touch plate.

My config: MSM 2.0.12, ESS with last plugin, last Mach3, W7Pro/x64
I use some debounce in ESS config and not in Mach3. Also, the probing is made in a single step (500 mmpm for "fast probe" and 0 for slow probe)
I am not using Master Tool Mode, just TC auto TCP, TC auto TLO, TLO=PTL and Skip RH Tools, with a self-made ATC script
The MSM provided brains are not enabled. Should I enable them?

Also, an upgrade for the MSM could solve this issue? Because is very annoying and breaking tools is not my hobby

Thank you,
Seb

[DaveCVI]

Hi Seb,
I don't remember any more details for this issue than what are in this forum thread. It seems that you are already using the same combination of debounce options that Chris was using. I.e. using the ESS ones and not the mach debounce settings.

I sort of remember (this thread is 7 years old... <grin>) that this was a problem with not enough debounce and that once the ESS debounce was set up to remove electrical trigger noise for the machine, all was then fine.
That leads me to ask if you have successfully gone thru all the probing tests in section 8.11 of the user manual?
Once a machine is setup to pass those tests, it is very rare for a probing operation to fail.

I'm afraid I don't have more specific advice for this situation as each machine is different re noise sources that can cause false probe triggers events etc.

Re updating MSM, since the prior instance of this was solved on an even earlier version of MSM than you are running, I doubt that will be the key here. Of course can update MSM if you want to <grin>.

Dave